The Saker interviews Paul Craig Roberts

Saker Archives
Infinite Father I thank Thee that Thou Hearest my prayer, I thank Thee that Thou hearest me always, I thank Thee that Thou hast already given me all that my heart can wish for and all that my life may need for the time that is and the eternity that is to be, and now with supreme joy and unspeakable thanksgiving I come to Thee to receive Thy gifts and receive from Thy loving hands the divine blessings that Thou hast from all eternity treasured for me, “The Hidden Secret” by C.D. Larson

I had been wanting to interview Paul Craig Roberts for a long time already. For many years I have been following his writings and interviews and every time I read what he had to say I was hoping that one day I would have the privilege do interview him about the nature of the US deep state and the Empire. Recently, I emailed him and asked for such an interview, and he very kindly agreed. I am very grateful to him for this opportunity.

The Saker

——-

The Saker:  It has become rather obvious to many, if not most, people that the USA is not a democracy or a republic, but rather a plutocracy run by a small elite which some call “the 1%”.  Others speak of the “deep state”.  So my first question to you is the following.  Could you please take the time to assess the influence and power of each of the following entities one by one.  In particular, can you specify for each of the following whether it has a decision-making “top” position, or a decision-implementing “middle” position in the real structure of power (listed in no specific order)

  • Federal Reserve
  • Big Banking
  • Bilderberg
  • Council on Foreign Relations
  • Skull & Bones
  • CIA
  • Goldman Sachs and top banks
  • “Top 100 families” (Rothschild, Rockefeller, Dutch Royal Family, British Royal Family, etc.)
  • Israel Lobby
  • Freemasons and their lodges
  • Big Business: Big Oil, Military Industrial Complex, etc.
  • Other people or organizations not listed above?

Who, which group, what entity would you consider is really at the apex of power in the current US polity?

Paul Craig Roberts: The US is ruled by private interest groups and by the neoconservative ideology that History has chosen the US as the “exceptional and indispensable” country with the right and responsibility to impose its will on the world.

In my opinion the most powerful of the private interest groups are:
The Military/security Complex
The 4 or 5 mega-sized “banks too big to fail” and Wall Street
The Israel Lobby
Agribusiness
The Extractive industries (oil, mining, timber).

The interests of these interest groups coincide with those of the neoconservatives. The neoconservative ideology supports American financial and military-political imperialism or hegemony.

There is no independent American print or TV media.  In the last years of the Clinton regime, 90% of the print and TV media was concentrated in 6 mega-companies.  During the Bush regime, National Public Radio lost its independence.  So the media functions as a Ministry of Propaganda.

Both political parties, Republicans and Democrats, are dependent on the same private interest groups for campaign funds, so both parties dance to the same masters.  Jobs offshoring destroyed the manufacturing and industrial unions and deprived the Democrats of Labor Union political contributions. In those days, Democrats represented the working people and Republicans represented business.

The Federal Reserve is there for the banks, mainly the large ones.The Federal Reserve was created as lender of last resort to prevent banks from failing because of runs on the bank or withdrawal of deposits.  The New York Fed, which conducts the financial interventions, has a board that consists of the executives of the big banks.  The last  three Federal Reserve chairmen have been Jews, and the current vice chairman is the former head of the Israeli central bank. Jews are prominent in the financial sector, for example, Goldman Sachs.  In recent years, the US Treasury Secretaries and heads of the financial regulatory agencies have mainly been the bank executives responsible for the fraud and excessive debt leverage that set off the last financial crisis.

In the 21st century, the Federal Reserve and Treasury have served only the interests of the large banks.  This has been at the expense of the economy and the population. For example, retired people have had no interest income for eight years in order that the financial institutions can borrow at zero costs and make money.

No matter how rich some families are, they cannot compete with powerful interest groups such as the military/security complex or Wall Street and the banks.  Long established wealth can look after its interests, and some, such as the Rockefellers,  have activist foundations that most likely work hand in hand with the National Endowment for Democracy to fund and encourage various pro-American non-governmental organizations (NGOs) in countries that the US wants to influence or overthrow, such as occurred in Ukraine.  The NGOs are essentially US Fifth Columns and operate under such names as “human rights,” “democracy,” etc.  A Chinese professor told me that the Rockefeller Foundation had created an American University in China and is used to organize various anti-regime Chinese.  At one time, and perhaps still, there were hundreds of US and German financed NGOs in Russia, possibly as many as 1,000.

I don’t know if the Bilderbergs do the same.  Possibly they are just very rich people and have their proteges in governments who try to protect their interests.  I have never seen any signs of Bilderbergs or Masons or Rothchilds affecting congressional or executive branch decisions.

On the other hand, the Council for Foreign Relations is influential.  The council consists of former government policy officials and academics involved in foreign policy and international relations.  The council’s publication, Foreign Affairs, is the premier foreign policy forum.  Some journalists are also members. When I was proposed for membership in the 1980s, I was blackballed.

Skull & Bones is a Yale University secret fraternity.  A number of universities have such secret fraternities.  For example, the University of Virginia has one, and the University of Georgia.  These fraternities do not have secret governmental plots or ruling powers.  Their influence would be limited to the personal influence of the members, who tend to be sons of elite families.  In my opinion, these fraternities exist to convey elite status to members.  They have no operational functions.

The Saker:  What about individuals?  Who are, in your opinion, the most powerful people in the USA today?  Who takes the final, top level, strategic decision?

Paul Craig Roberts:  There really are no people powerful in themselves.  Powerful people are ones that powerful interest groups are behind.  Ever since Secretary of Defense William Perry privatized so much of the military in 1991, the military/security complex has been  extremely powerful, and its power is further amplified by its ability to finance political campaigns and by the fact that it is a source of employment in many states. Essentially Pentagon expenditures are controlled by defense contractors.

The Saker:  I have always believed that in international terms, organizations such as NATO, the EU or all the others are only a front, and that the real alliance which controls the planet are the ECHELON countries: US, UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand aka “AUSCANNZUKUS” (they are also referred to as the “Anglosphere” or the “Five Eyes”) with the US and the UK are the senior partners while Canada, Australia and New Zealand are the junior partners here.  Is this model correct?

Paul Craig Roberts: NATO was a US creation allegedly to protect Europe from a Soviet invasion.  Its purpose expired in 1991.  Today NATO provides cover for US aggression and provides mercenary forces for the American Empire.  Britain, Canada, Australia, are simply US vassal states just as are Germany, France, Italy, Japan and the rest.  There are no partners; just vassals.  It is Washington’s empire, no one else’s.

The US favors the EU, because it is easier to control than the individual countries.

The Saker:  It is often said that Israel controls the USA.  Chomsky, and others, say that it is the USA which controls Israel.  How would you characterize the relationship between Israel and the USA – does the dog wag the tail or does the tail wag the dog?  Would you say that the Israel Lobby is in total control of the USA or are there still other forces capable of saying “no” to the Israel Lobby and impose their own agenda?

Paul Craig Roberts:  I have never seen any evidence that the US controls Israel.  All the evidence is that Israel controls the US, but only its MidEast policy.  In recent years, Israel or the Israel Lobby, has been able to control or block academic appointments in the US and tenure for professors considered to be critics of Israel.  Israel has successfully reached into both Catholic and State universities to block tenure and appointments.  Israel can also block some presidential appointments and has vast influence over the print and TV media.  The Israel Lobby also has plenty of money for political campaign funds and never fails to unseat US Representatives and Senators considered critical of Israel.  The Israel lobby was able to reach into the black congressional district of Cynthia McKinney, a black woman, and defeat her reelection.  As Admiral Tom Moorer, Chief of Naval Operations and Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said: “No American President can stand up to Israel.”  Adm. Moorer could not even get an official investigation of Israel’s deadly attack on the USS Liberty in 1967.

Anyone who criticizes Israeli policies even in a helpful way is labeled an “anti-Semite.”

In American politics, media, and universities, this is a death-dealing blow.  You might as well get hit with a hellfire missile.

The Saker:  Which of the 12 entities of power which I listed above have, in your opinion, played a key role in the planning and execution of the 9/11 “false flag” operation?  After all, it is hard to imagine that this was planned and prepared between the inauguration of GW Bush and September 11th – it must have been prepared during the years of the Clinton Administration.  Is it not true the the Oklahoma City bombing was a rehearsal for 9/11?

Paul Craig Roberts: In my opinion 9/11 was the product of the neoconservatives, many of whom are Jewish allied with Israel, Dick Cheney, and Israel.  Its purpose was to provide “the new Pearl Harbor” that the neoconservatives said was necessary to launch their wars of conquest in the Middle East.  I don’t know how far back it was planned, but Silverstein was obviously part of it and he had not had the WTC for very long before 9/11.

As for the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, US Air Force General Partin, the Air Force’s munitions expert,  prepared an expert report proving beyond all doubt that the building blew up from the inside out and that the truck bomb was cover.  Congress and the media ignored his report.  The patsy, McVeigh,  was already set up, and that was the only story allowed.

The Saker:  Do you think that the people who run the USA today realize that they are on a collision course with Russia which could lead to thermonuclear war?  If yes, why would they take such a risk? Do they really believe that at the last moment Russian will “blink” and back down, or do they actually believe that they can win a nuclear war?  Are they not afraid that in a nuclear conflagration with Russia they will lose everything they have, including their power and even their lives?

Paul Craig Roberts: I am as puzzled as much as you.  I think Washington is lost in hubris and arrogance and
is more or less insane.  Also, there is belief that the US can win a nuclear war with Russia.  There was an article in Foreign Affairs around 2005 or 2006 in which this conclusion was reached.  The belief in the winnability of nuclear war has been boosted by faith in ABM defenses.  The argument is that the US can hit Russia so hard in a preemptive first strike that Russia would not retaliate in fear of a second blow.

The Saker:  How do you assess the current health of the Empire?  For many years we have seen clear signs of decline, but there is still not visible collapse.  Do you believe that such a collapse is inevitable and, if not, how could it be prevented?  Will we see the day when the US Dollar suddenly become worthless or will another mechanism precipitate the collapse of this Empire?

Paul Craig Roberts:  The US economy is hollowed out.  There has been no real median family income growth for decades.  Alan Greenspan as Fed Chairman used an expansion of consumer credit to take the place of the missing growth in consumer income, but the population is now too indebted to take on more.  So there is nothing to drive the economy.  So many manufacturing and tradable professional service jobs such as software engineering have been moved offshore that the middle class has shrunk.  University graduates cannot get jobs that support an independent existence.  So they can’t form households, buy houses, appliances and home furnishings.  The government produces low inflation measures by not measuring inflation and low unemployment rates by not measuring unemployment.  The financial markets are rigged, and gold is driven down despite rising demand by selling uncovered shorts in the futures market.  It is a house of cards that has stood longer than I thought possible.  Apparently, the house of cards can stand until the rest of the world ceases to hold the US dollar as reserves.

Possibly the empire has put too much stress on Europe by involving Europe in a conflict with Russia.  If Germany, for example, were to pull out of NATO, the empire would collapse, or if Russia can find the wits to finance Greece, Italy, and Spain in exchange for them leaving the Euro and EU, the empire would suffer a fatal blow.

Alternatively, Russia might tell Europe that Russia has no alternative but to target European capitals with nuclear weapons now that Europe has joined the US in conducting war against Russia.

The Saker:  Russia and China have done something unique in history and they have gone beyond the traditional model of forming an alliance: they have agreed to become interdependent – one could say that they have agreed to a symbiotic relationship.  Do you believe that those in charge of the Empire have understood the tectonic change which has just happen or are they simply going into deep denial because reality scares them too much?

Paul Craig Roberts:  Stephen Cohen says that there is simply no foreign policy discussion.  There is no debate.  I think the empire thinks that it can destabilize Russia and China and that is one reason Washington has color revolutions working in Armenia, Kyrgyzstan, and Uzbekistan. As Washington is determined to prevent the rise of other powers and is lost in hubris and arrogance, Washington probably believes that it will succeed.  After all, History chose Washington.

The Saker:  In your opinion, do presidential elections still matter and, if yes, what is your best hope for 2016?  I am personally very afraid of Hillary Clinton whom I see as an exceptionally dangerous and outright evil person, but with the current Neocon influence inside the Republican, can we really hope for a non-Neocon candidate to win the GOP nomination?

Paul Craig Roberts:  The only way a presidential election could matter would be if the elected president had behind him a strong movement.  Without a movement, the president has no independent power and no one to appoint who will do his bidding.  Presidents are captives.  Reagan had something of a movement, just enough that we were able to cure stagflation despite Wall Street’s opposition and we were able to end the cold war despite the opposition of the CIA and the military/security complex.  Plus Reagan was very old and came from a long time ago.  He assumed the office of the president was powerful and acted that way.

The Saker:  What about the armed forces?  Can you imagine a Chairman of the JCS saying “no, Mr President, that is crazy, we will not do this” or do you expect the generals to obey any order, including one starting a nuclear war against Russia?  Do you have any hope that the US military could step in and stop the “crazies” currently in power in the White House and Congress?

Paul Craig Roberts:  The US military is a creature of the armaments industries.  The whole purpose of making general is to be qualified to be a consultant to the “defense” industry, or to become an executive or on the board of a “defense” contractor.  The military serves as the source of retirement careers when the generals make the big money.  The US military is totally corrupt.  Read Andrew Cockburn’s book, Kill Chain.

The Saker:  If the USA is really deliberately going down the path towards war with Russia – what should Russia do?  Should Russia back down and accept to be subjugated as a preferable option to a thermonuclear war, or should Russia resist and thereby accept the possibility of a thermonuclear war?  Do you believe that a very deliberate and strong show of strength on the part of Russia could deter a US attack?

Paul Craig Roberts: I have often wondered about this.  I can’t say that I know.  I think Putin is humane enough to surrender rather than to be part of the destruction of the world, but Putin has to answer to others inside Russia and I doubt the nationalists would stand for surrender.

In my opinion, I think Putin should focus on Europe and make Europe aware that Russia expects an American attack and will have no choice except to wipe out Europe in response.  Putin should encourage Europe to break off from NATO in order to prevent World War 3.

Putin should also make sure China understands that China represents the same perceived threat to the US as Russia and that the two countries need to stand together.  Perhaps if Russia and China were to maintain their forces on a nuclear alert, not the top one, but an elevated one that conveyed recognition of the American threat and conveyed this threat to the world, the US could be isolated.

Perhaps if the Indian press, the Japanese Press, the French and German press, the UK press, the Chinese and Russian press began reporting that Russia and China wonder if they will receive a pre-emptive nuclear attack from Washington the result would be to prevent the attack.

As far as I can tell from my many media interviews with the Russian media, there is no Russian awareness of the Wolfowitz Doctrine. Russians think that there is some kind of misunderstanding about Russian intentions.  The Russian media does not understand that Russia is unacceptable, because Russia is not a US vassal. Russians believe all the Western bullshit about “freedom and democracy” and believe that they are short on both but making progress.  In other words, Russians have no idea that they are targeted for destruction.

The Saker:  What are, in your opinion, the roots of the hatred of so many members of the US elites for Russia?  Is that just a leftover from the Cold War, or is there another reason for the almost universal russophobia amongst US elites?  Even during the Cold War, it was unclear whether the US was anti-Communist or anti-Russian?  Is there something in the Russian culture, nation or civilization which triggers that hostility and, if yes, what is it?

Paul Craig Roberts: The hostility toward Russia goes back to the Wolfowttz Doctrine:

Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival, either on the territory of the former Soviet Union or elsewhere, that poses a threat on the order of that posed formerly by the Soviet Union. This is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated control, be sufficient to generate global power.

While the US was focused on its MidEast wars, Putin restored Russia and blocked  Washington’s planned invasion of Syria and bombing of Iran.  The “first objective” of the neocon doctrine was breached.  Russia had to be brought into line.  That is the origin of Washington’s attack on Russia.  The dependent and captive US and European media simply repeats “the Russian Threat” to the public, which is insouciant and otherwise uninformed.

The offense of Russian culture is also there–Christian morals, respect for law and humanity, diplomacy in place of coercion, traditional social mores–but these are in the background.  Russia is hated because Russia (and China) is a check on Washington’s unilateral uni-power.  This check is what will lead to war.

If the Russians and Chinese do not expect a pre-emptive nuclear attack from Washington, they will be destroyed.

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319 Comments

  1. A bit off topic… Yesterday I posted here about the genesis of my blogger nickname Romashka2 and today Varjag-2007 posted this necrology.

    http://varjag-2007.livejournal.com/8042303.html

    It’s not true that our friends die, they just cease being here with us

    Almost a year ago in Slavyansk as a result of the Ukrainian troops raid was killed the commander of the self-defense troops of Slavyansk Sergey Jurikov, known by his nickname Romashka.

    Jurikov Sergey Nikolayevich was a member of the People Temple of Ukraine, born in 1980 in Sevastopol, lived in Kiev, sportsmen- paratrooper, he had a record of over 1500 jumps, a professional photographer. Before the NATO military revolt in Kiev he served as a ponomar , a gate-keeper – In the Orthodox Church Kiev Pechersk Lavra.

    He will remain always in our memory and here on this poster photographed next to a WWII veteran during the “Crimean Spring. ” He was one of the “polite people” in Crimea .

    (On a poster it says: Fascism Stops Here)

    This is what I had posted yesterday, without any knowledge about who was the person behind the nickname I have used for a year.
    It’s actually Romashka meaning daisy. In spring 2014, when the NATO war on Ukraine has just started, I listened to the online radio scanners in Donbass. There wasn’t any organized self-defense forces back then. People were standing against Ukro-fascist tanks with their bare hands, trying to keep peace in the region, locals were sharing borsch, bread and cigarettes with the Ukro soldiers. Donbass asked the US junta in Kiev for the autonomy and the use of the Russian language. People’s demands were very reasonable and everyone (but not the US State Department) still hoped that this Mexican standoff would end up peacefully.

    Suddenly, one night in late March someone reported seeing paratroopers dropped on Slavyansk. Locals, armed mostly with sticks, organized the search party walking streets and checking roofs and vacant buildings. Someone reminded to listen to the yard dogs barking excessively. Several sniper paratroopers, most likely the NATO special forces, were discovered and liquidated, but some remained at large and started shooting the locals. Next came the information, that the self-defender sniper nicknamed Romashka was killed in the duel with the paratrooper-sniper, who was also killed afterwards. Romashka was one of the very first heroes among the self-defenders in this NATO war on the Russian Mir (world and/or peace) . I use his nickname to keep memory of him alive and his fight with the Satanists going.

    • Thank you for this story. I know we’re off topic, and the interview is worthy of so much discussion, but I was very grateful to hear your reminders of how things were back in March.

      I remember from the iPhone videos and raw commentary we were all trying to absorb so rapidly back then that there was indeed a sense on the surface of a “Mexican standoff” between people who had no real desire to kill or destroy. It seemed often that the troops were more embarrassed than anything else, to be confronting the inhabitants. What sadness to see now how the hatreds were systematically and progressively stirred up.

      What a difference a few snipers can make to history. History lies helpless before the hand of the assassin, and the determined evildoer.

  2. OMG! This interview is one of the best, most informative and intellectually riveting I’ve read in some time. The questions were the ones I’ve been pondering for decades and the answers pulled no punches…especially the last line. Thanks to both of you. The alternate media is what keeps the hope of a future for humanity alive.

    gc

    greencrowasthecrowflies.blogspot.ca

  3. “If the Russians and Chinese do not expect a pre-emptive nuclear attack from Washington, they will be destroyed.”

    Thanks for this article Saker. When The “allies” jumped aboard the AIIB it looked as though China may have been able to bring about change without war, but it looks as though US will not accept defeat. Pianoman posted these links not long ago under another article –
    http://docs.house.gov/billsthisweek/20150323/MAS_087_xml.friday.pdf

    http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/archives/featured-articles/2015/march/23/congress-demands-war-in-ukraine/

    With Russia deploying latest generation nuke missile capable of evading missile defences, plus deploying its own latest generation missile defences, the US will be looking at using their first strike option before any perceived advantage is lost.
    Hopefully there will be some warning with a cranking up of anti Russia propaganda in the MSM.

  4. I certainly hope the Russian gov’t and the Chinese gov’t realize the danger of doing nothing. Armenia, Uzbek., and Kyrgyz. should throw out US NGOs, and empty the US Embassies to skeletal staff levels- now.

  5. It all falls apart when he says about the risks of nuclear war, ” I think Washington is lost in hubris and arrogance and is more or less insane.”

    That’s not an analysis, that’s just a cop out from someone whose cranky ideas just can’t be made to fit the facts.

    I remember back in 1962 being taught how to survive a nuclear bomb by hiding under my school desk. Fortunately, the superpower leaders of the day realised the uselessness of nuclear war, and agreed to back down from the confrontation. The complexity of today’s attack/defence systems mean that NOBODY can be assured of the outcome, so no one will dare start anything nuclear. They are NOT stupid.

      • but they are insane and full of (false) pride. That’s is as insightful an analysis as you are going to get anywhere because it is true. Look at their behavior around the world sponsoring terrorism. Fighting ISIS in Iraq but not in Syria?? Allowing best allies to train ISIS you help provide them with weapons and then tell the public they are a threat to your security and you need more money fo rthe military. is that not so prideful that they think they can lie right to our faces and get away with it and funding cannibals is that not insane-Threatening war with a nuclear power that insists it will use nuclear weapons even in a limited ground war while they prepare for a ground war. Bang on Analysis.

        • I reckon they think that at least Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen and Ukraine aren’t going to be playing a big part in WW3. So what looks like a cock-up by madmen is actually laying the groundwork for the biggest mopping-up of resources ever seen, a bit further down the track when the gloves are off. Evil, yes, but insane?

          Note how Hifter (CIA puppet) is now head of some Libyan army faction, and calling for foreign intervention to save the country from chaos. If you ignore all the pain and suffering caused by US interference there, Libya is still very much there for the taking – much better than still having un-predictable Gaddafi there.

      • Actually they are stupid. So stupid in fact, that most people consider them exceptionally intelligent. As they, obviously, do themselves. But they are not. They are only clever. Which, unfortunately, makes them even more dangerous and hell-bent.

        Luckily, Vladimir Vladimirovic reincarnated just-in-time. 🙂

        • I have thought a lot about this. Neocons are typically evangelical religious-right fundamentalists itching for their end-times prophecy involving what they interpret and perceive as war with Russia.

          This deluded cherry-picked religious zeal clouds judgment, gives these arrogant deity channelers a sense of righteous immortality (ironically) and validates their pugnacious and aggressive brinkmanship. It’s essentially not prophecy as much as self-fulfilling prophecy.

          Their groupthink and binary blinkered good-evil filter means they can think vertically and very cunningly but are unable to think horizontally and view the possible permutations of their actions, particularly with regard to other stakeholders and their cultures.

          These are very dangerous people.

          • Sorry but the neo-cons have nothing to do with Christianity. Just read the sermon on the mount Jesus gave and you’ll see there is nothing in common at all between them. The neo-cons are just crazy political crackpots hell bent on US global domination. Just read their document “Program For A New American Century” and you’ll see that. Many people have had dreams and visions from God about a Russian nuclear attack on the USA so it appears that the US will eventually take it’s provocations against Russia too far and that will be the end of the US..

    • In 1962 the US was on top of the world with no or very little debt and a lot to lose in the event of all out war. China was not a financial power capable of pulling the US dollar rug from under the US.
      Today the US is a cornered rat, with huge debts that it can never repay or cover unless the US dollar remains the global reserve currency.

      • In 1962 we had a moral President who replaced the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff who had the gall to recommend Operation Northwoods to him as a pretext for invading Cuba.

        Since 1962 we have had Presidents without such moral compunction against immoral military and foreign policies.

      • Peter,

        It is not 1962. The “beast,” for lack of a better word to describe all of the interconnected entities that make up the Washington establishment & satellites, has grown-up; the bit of ethnics that yet remained in 1962 are gone; fresh memories of World War II are all but gone among the public, otherwise they’d be out in the street to prevent this kind of carnage (the American peopke are largely desensitized to “nuke”); the economy & all that is at stake for the globalists when confidence in the dollar slips…… It is not 1962.

      • Very true. It has been on my mind for 20 years or so that the USA is essentially a deadbeat armed with thermonuclear (and biological and chemical) weapons. Not a nice prospect.

    • A reading of the Wolfowitz Doctrine, Brzezinski, and observing US actions and official statements since 1992 should be enough to know that there are those in Washington who believe their own think tank conclusions. If they think they can win it, they will do it. The body count is obviously unimportant to psychos.

      • During the Cuban Missile Crisis all the military men and advisers wanted to launch a pre-emptive attack on Russia–John and Robert Kennedy were opposed to that. One general said that he estimated 40 million Americans would die but over 150 million Russians would die which made it a favorable outcome. The myth that the U.S. is some idealistic country is caca. It stems from the fact American troops in WWII were relatively benign occupiers of Europe compared to everyone else. The military guys never forgave the Kennedy brothers–both were dead within six years.

      • They’re puppets…they’re promised “to be in” when the hammer drops. but I don’t think the hammer’s going to drop. Maybe a great human being will win the presidency…lets all vote for Cynthia McKinney…lets start a campaign….and we can 3D money.

    • Today the elite have their nice underground cities in which they can survive comfortably for decades. They think they can “win” the war, but even if not, they’ll be fine, all the “useless eaters”, like you and I, will die. They couldn’t care less about that – anymore than you care when an Iraqi child dies because US sanctions prevented simple medications from reaching Iraq. Sure you might be a little bothered for a moment when you read it but all in all life goes on just fine.

      The fundamental problem you have is you think our rulers think they are part of us. No, they don’t. They think they are superior – exceptional, chosen, whatever label suits, but that label applies to them, not to you.

      I think though that they are unlikely to risk a nuclear war until they have perfected 3D printing and made a bit of further progress on robotics. Without that, it cannot be guaranteed that their underground cities won’t suffer some dysfunction they cannot solve (it’s not possible to include the entire industrial base and supply chain necessary for modern living in an underground city; a 3D printer would greatly reduce the industrial footprint and robots can be used for mining raw materials and other work).

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